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Strawmanning

undoReturn
Rena Mechanic 1.jpg (53.2KiB, 300x417) save_alt

So people on twitter are talking about yiff.party here. And I got curious about something.

How many of you, just don't believe in the practices of patreon.
How many of you just believe in yiff.party's goal of archiving.
And how many of you straight up believe artists should be paid for anything?

I'm not looking to start anything here. In fact, I want to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. I've seen several videos on piracy, and what circumstances REALLY drive people to it. And I'm willing to bet most of you are no different, but I'd rather not say anything without proof.

>>90292
Who was talking about this site ? Also for my take, I don't really like paywalls, but I don't know if people could sustain themselves without them. I do think yiff has some importance as an archiving tool, a lot of artist have been nuking their art in the last years, which is a shame, since they could simply get a new e-mail and create another account, there is no need to destroy art. As for the final one, I do think they deserved to be payed, but most people in here wouldn't be here if they could pay

Honestly, in my opinion, i have no doubt most people pirate to be cheap because hell i do it., however, i refuse to do as this thread suggests and strawman because im not the voice of the countless users who use this site. But i what i can say is that sites like these are pretty much a necessity in the grand scheme of things. So let me speak for what this site does do. This site does allow people who can't afford an artist to see their art regardless, this site allows for free advertisement, this site allows you to follow and still get artists content who you previously pledged to but cant because lets be honest, you cant afford to pledge to every single artist you like and have money at the end of the month if you arent careful it just aint happening. This site allows art to be spread far and wide, this site allows for archival for unnecessary nukes. This site allows for scummy artists to be called out like jasonafex and bitchdrachen so you dont have to support someone who simply wants to overcharge you. Lets be honest. This site does alot for everyone. Its why people use it because it has features that allows to get to the content people want in the way that makes them comfortable. Whether people use it for good or bad, isn't up for any one of use to simply say who does what and why they do it. Its the height of stupidity to assume why we do what we do on this site. After all anonymity is also a factor and feature of why people use this site. As long as their have been paywalls and barriers to get to a consumable product pirating has always existed to get around that barrier. So all in all the above reasons are all facts that this site allows a user to do. And the last statement is also a fact as in "It's just how it is." It doesnt matter if its moraly right or wrong.

>>90313

I didn't mean to ask folks to strawman if that's what your getting at?
Actually one of the replies on the tweet was strawmanning: claiming that everyone here believes artists don't deserve any compensation of any sort, and I personally imagine, that is not the case.

>>90299

TheOfficialDubmare as well as some others.
I, think they could sustain themselves with paywalls honestly. I mean they kind of rely on generosity to begin with, turning what should be donations into a service I don't think changes that much. I could be wrong, but I imagine if people were that desperate to see a particular picture, and weren't actively thinking of supporting the artist... they'd probably end up finding this place or Exhentai before considering paying.

I once knew an artist on Pixiv named Godtater who made some good Naruto stuff, but one day I checked in and all his stuff was gone save for an empty profile, and only a handful of his art ever made it to other sites like panda. God knows how much stuff gets lost behind a paywall just because some jackass thinks their amateur art is worth $100 (not kidding about that figure either, look up b9tribeca for example). That's why I believe in archiving, at least.

>>90300
>>90313
>>90337
Paywalling is optional.

>>90300
>I do think they deserved to be payed, but most people in here wouldn't be here if they could pay
Where do you think the imports come from?

>>90396
The few in here that can pay and share it, most users aren't leakers, I do think people would prefer to do things legally if conditions were different

>>90292
This place wouldn't exist if there weren't some kind of problem with how artists use Patreon. Whether you believe or not, this place functions as an archive simply because we retain posts otherwise deleted on Patreon (due to artists leaving or getting banned). As to the question of artists getting paid, that comes from a place of strawmanning: Even if everyone here believed no artist should get a dime, this place only exists because art is needlessly being withheld (since nobody has ever satisfactorily shown the harm that this place does).

Might be tangential, but I had said in another thread about how there's this "crop/censor culture" and how, if you want the full "low res" image(s) (in some instances it's still cenned), then give me 15-20 dollars a month for something they could have posted publicly.

Same thing happens on fanbox and it's even worse on that side.

>>90396

Ahh, shoot, I meant to say they could sustain themselves WITHOUT a paywall. Sorry

Imagine a bar that has to pour out unsold beer every night through a sink, where it travels out the bar and drips from a back pipe and onto the street. This beer is still perfectly good, it just is in a position where it is more available. For me, YiffParty is that pipe. People will pass by as I shamelessly suckle on the outflow of beer, yet since it is free and I get to enjoy the product just as the bar patrons do, it does not bother me. The owner of the bar will occasionally come out to scold me for being greedy and circumventing their policies to enjoy their service for free rather than pay like others. Yet, there may be some days or some bars where I may occasionally choose to spend money and buy beer like normal people to support the establishment if it is run by good people. However, regardless or whether or not I pay money directly to the bartender, the drip feed will always exist, and quality work being viewable for free is something that is hard to resist. Will my actions lead to the bar closing down when they do not have enough income to remain open? In my opinion not directly. This is true of pirating in general, usually it doesn't directly harm the artist because a lot of people who pirate wouldn't of paid in the first place. Many pirates like myself assume that we are relatively harmless as long as we remain dead ends that opportunistically acquire artwork that we will keep to ourselves until eventual deletion. We choose to take it because it is available. If it becomes too hard to pirate, we simply give up and wait for another opportunity down the line for whatever media to become more available. Pirating is wrong, as art is a service and time is money, but at what point does the money given to artists through Patron truly become justified, especially considering how broken Patron is? You are at the mercy of how the artist runs things.

Many artists use popular vote to direct their artwork and subjects, however other supporters (especially of furry artists) often request weird or uncomfortable fetish material that I would not want to see. Is it really fair for me to pay the same price as other patrons yet be less satisfied with the artwork? While I would love an artist that makes hot works of busty females, I wouldn't want to support them if they also spend 1/3 of their art making scat, guro, babyfur, etc. art. If I'm not happy with the material, why should I have to pay for all of it? Why can't I just pay for what I want? Certain patrons might also be of a high paying tier due to high income or finances, leading to a situation where a lower tier cannot compete with a higher tier in terms of artworks they want to see. Overall Patron presents the problem of supporters dictating the direction of the artist instead of allowing for the artist's vision to work unaltered in the way that it attracted me in the first place. Some artists even double dip financially, why should I pay money to see my favorite artists re-post commissions of some furry user's Mary-Sue OC? As for opinions of archiving, I'll leave it up to you. It seems wrong to keep an artist's work around if they so choose to have it deleted for fear of it coming back to haunt them, which is especially true of pornography. Yet, it does seem sad to let all of that hard work die.

I'm sure that my argument has used every logical fallacy in existence, but some of my points are valid. Does YiffParty hurt artists? Probably, but how much so is up for debate. It still remains an appealing way to circumvent Patron, which is the only reason why I use it. If YiffParty were to die, I would simply go back to waiting for artist material to be publicly posted until something else comes along.

Also, regarding the establishment, Patron is a nasty platform in my opinion that would require an extra three paragraphs of ranting to paint it as the piece of shit that it is. The company in charge is unfair to smaller artists and condemns (bans) all sorts of things yet promotes e whoring and general scummy behavior as long as it makes them money, not to mention the high percentage of money that the company takes for each patron donation. Patron doesn't do shit about artist piracy because they don't want to put forth the resources and effort. Basically fuck patron in general, I don't want to have any of my money go to them.

>>90292
I believe in the goal of archiving that this site once held steadfastly to.

I'm done being reasonable.png (325.1KiB, 714x565) save_alt

>>90292
I'm here because IP is a bullshit concept and the people who support it can burn in the fiery pits of Hell for all eternity. "Well since it's online we need to structure a new set of laws and property ownership rules and legisla-"
HAHAHAHA No. Fuck you. Fuck your laws. Fuck your legislation. Fuck your IP. If I buy something it belongs to me, just because it's endlessly copyable doesn't mean it should be treated any different than physical property. This is about what I want. This is about individualism. This is about MY choice. Fuck your imaginary bullshit digital restrictions. I bought it, it belongs to ME, and I can share it with whoever I damn well please.

Getting paid for producing something incentivizes content production.

Getting paid for keeping content locked up incentivizes being a lazy, greedy piece of shit coasting off a stagnant back catalog and attacking the fans.

>>90623
I'll admit, even one of the creators I harped on earlier has done just that: coasting off a stagnant back-catalog.

it is painful to read the wall of text...

>>90569
Fucking WHEEZING at your autism

>>90623
Ah yes, the days before paytreon and all the other spin-off sites, akin.

To be honest, once the poorly made site came about, its "ideology" spread like a rash. Now most of the "self monopolists" have become over protective of either:

"Someone else's ip"

Or

"Their own ""ip"" " (as if they were their own company.)

If I recall correctly, independent contractors have to look out for themselves and their own costs. They essentially aren't covered by anything. After all, they had to pay taxes themselves. (Not sure if that's changed recently).

Though, I digress.

Don’t care

>>90621
another was deleted above yours see web.archive.org

File